You say it's not a speedrun tier list, but it seems tuned that way if you put Galeforce as high as it is. If you're not going for records, and the player isn't supposed to need frequent bail-out buttons, I'm not sure how you can justify it next to Veteran.
Galeforce is absolutely huge, even in casual play. The amount of things it lets you do is crazy. It lets you take out key dangerous enemies and then retreat to a safe place. It lets you clear out an extra enemy on player phase, reducing nearby risk. It lets you rush ahead and defeat the boss when things are getting hairy. It provides a huge bonus, no matter how you're playing. The obvious downside is that you're not getting it until the game is half over - and I could certainly see that as an argument for it dropping down, but in terms of usefulness, it's definitely matching Veteran or coming close.
Ooh, interesting. Is it safe to assume that skill value also depends on how good its class is (Rally Def would be higher, except that Generals reek)?
Definitely, to some degree. I kinda actually feel like a class tier list might have been a better way of doing this, since skills are closely linked to it, but alas.
So, skills: I think Luna should be in the same tier as Ignis. Ignis has poorer distribution, but GK isn't the best class to be in and the units that do get Ignis have good growths in both Str and Mag so its damage will mostly be higher (enemy Def is fairly low).
Pretty reasonable argument. Do you think Ignis should go down or Luna up? Although I do think you're underrating GK slightly - total weapon control is nice, good defences are, uh, good, and it is mounted.
I also feel like Bowbreaker should be a little higher. Lategame enemy Bows are some of the hardest things in the game to dodgetank, and BK is arguably the best thief-killing class in the game so it's worth keeping one around earlygame.
Hm, I don't have much experience with Bow Knights in-game personally (I find them to be a not-too-useful class, especially when there's Hero or Sniper as alternate options). This argument makes sense to me at least. I'll move Bowbreaker up to tier 7 for now.
Rally Str is completely free on Basilio and I pretty much always use it in the endgame. It's useful for a very short amount of time, but when it is there's absolutely no downside. I'd argue for it to be higher.
It's the short time bit that I feel is the issue. I did factor in that it's free on him when placing it, and also the availability of other rallies and their use. Right now I'm not convinced it should be in the same tier as speed (which is easily available to a good class and very helpful for doubling faster units and boosting avoid) or move (which... hmm, actually this one I could probably be convinced on. Move is obtained on the way to Galeforce, in a very good class, and +1 move can often open up options you might have been just short of before, but in general, it's not that great).
<quote>Berserker's skills feel like they should be a little lower since you have no natural Barbarians and they always require at least two seals to get, and most of the units you're willing to invest that much time into have better things to do.</quote>
Yeah, again, I did (try to) factor this in, but you're probably right. I think Vaike has a good case for going Fighter > Barbarian > Berserker as a reasonable class route, but asides from that, it's probably kids only. I'll drop Wrath and Axefaire a tier each for now.
AT seems like it should be higher, partially by virtue of Merc being good but also because it can save very large amounts of cash for lategame forges. Any particular reason why it's so low?
Patience is also very low, especially when Outdoor Fighter is so high. Since most combat is done on EP, I find it to be active far more often.
I'll tackle these together: It's mostly the same issue as with Barbarian - not many people have Merc as a class. Now I realise I'm probably being slightly inconsistent here, valuing it more sometimes and less other times, but that's what guys like you are for, to whip things back into shape. Anyway, here are the natural mercs you get: Robin, Donnel (sucks), Cordelia (good chance of not going Merc), Gregor (natural Merc), Flavia (endgame) plus Inigo (hard to recruit kid), Severa, Morgan and the children of Donnel, Gregor and Vaike. It's not a big list, basically, and especially in AT's case Gregor, the most likely one, has pretty mediocre luck (8 base, 45% growth). Cordelia isn't much better either. AT has some obvious usage, preserving valuable weapons slightly early on and braves/forges late, but it's that limited distribution that I think holds it back. I could see a good argument for what it can do on Robin/Morgan/other likely candidates pushing it up, but right now, I'm not convinced.
Patience vs. Outdoor Fighter has a similar issue. Three units start in the class to get (or start with) Outdoor Fighter, by chapter 2 (Fred, Sully, Stahl). One more is likely to switch into that class (Chrom). And I don't know the exact details of when it takes effect (I read that it's terrain based?) but I'm fairly confident it's a lot of the early to midgame at least (like... basically everything up to chapter 16 except chapters 4 and 6). And avoid skills, I find, matter most in the early to mid game, before enemy hit rates start jacking up (they're still good after that, but less so). Patience is good, don't get me wrong, but it's lower distribution holds it back.
I've always found Vantage to be pretty awkward to get as a part of a combo, especially on non-Avatar units. Since no lowmanning is assumed, it seems like it should be lower.
I was really on the border about where to put Vantage. On the one hand it's main combos are not easy to put together on most non-kid units (mostly it's Dark Mage stuff it combos with). On the other hand, it's still a useful skill sometimes anyway, if you can kill before getting hit, and with crit boosts, procs, dual strikes and the like, that's possible. Still I'm probably overrating it slightly. I'll drop it 1 tier for now.
Nobody said GF wasn't useful, but consider that it's currently tied for best skill in the list. Does it make the game "easier" to the extent that it's first amongst equals with Veteran? An entire tier better than DS+?
I think I'm comfortable putting it higher than DS+. DS+ is a good skill, but it requires high support levels and good skill to be really valuable, and of course is limited to two characters - one certain and one likely to be used, of course, however. The time DS+ starts being a top value skill is not long before you'd start getting Galeforce, and Galeforce is likely to help significantly more. As for if it's equal with Veteran... I'm fairly confident Veteran > Galeforce when the list is actually finalised, but for now, I think Galeforce beats out everything below it at least.
Auras and passives are a little under-represented here, as well. Tantivy is really badass, for example. It's a big stat stick in a small package.
Wow. I never thought someone would tell me I was underrating the auras. I was expecting cries of "Charm is overrated! Low tier!" What ones in particular do you think need to move up, and why?
For Tantivy, I don't feel like it should really be any higher. How often do you end your turn 3 spaces away from the nearest ally? I tend to find it's not that often but maybe you have different experiences? On the other hand, a lot of people can go Wyvern Rider, and it's a good class thanks to flight, axes and good promotions, so they likely will.
